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Post by CP_Jon_GoSox on Mar 9, 2022 20:20:02 GMT -5
Evan Drellich @evandrellich · 1h MLB has canceled more games, pushing Opening Day to April 14. The players rejected MLB’s options, and sent back a counter proposal. That counter was not enough to convince owners not to bring down more games.
The counterproposal players of the three options MLB proposed, per source: Parties have until Nov. 15 to agree to an international draft. If they don’t agree on it, then qualifying offer returns after 2022-23 offseason and international system also returns to status quo.
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Post by CP_Jon_GoSox on Mar 9, 2022 20:20:57 GMT -5
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Post by CP_Jon_GoSox on Mar 9, 2022 20:23:12 GMT -5
MLB Announces Postponement Of Opening Day Until At Least April 14
By Anthony Franco | March 9, 2022 at 6:36pm CDT
Major League Baseball announced it has postponed the start of the regular season for at least another week. A statement from Commissioner Rob Manfred reads:
“In a last-ditch effort to preserve a 162-game season, this week we have made good-faith proposals that address the specific concerns voiced by the MLBPA and would have allowed the players to return to the field immediately. The Clubs went to extraordinary lengths to meet the substantial demands of the MLBPA. On the key economic issues that have posed stumbling blocks, the Clubs proposed ways to bridge gaps to preserve a full schedule. Regrettably, after our second late-night bargaining session in a week, we remain without a deal.
Because of the logistical realities of the calendar, another two series are being removed from the schedule, meaning that Opening Day is postponed until April 14th. We worked hard to reach an agreement and offered a fair deal with significant improvements for the players and our fans. I am saddened by this situation’s continued impact on our game and all those who are a part of it, especially our loyal fans.
“We have the utmost respect for our players and hope they will ultimately choose to accept the fair agreement they have been offered.”
The MLBPA offered a statement of its own in response (via Twitter):
“The owners’ decision to cancel additional games is completely unnecessary. After making a set of comprehensive proposals to the league earlier this afternoon, and being told substantive responses were forthcoming, Players have yet to hear back. Players want to play, and we cannot wait to get back on the field for the best fans in the world. Our top priority remains the finalization of a fair contract for all Players, and we will continue negotiations toward that end.”
The league and union had seemingly closed the gap on core economics issues in an effort to hammer out a new CBA. However, the league’s efforts to tie the introduction of a draft for international amateurs to the elimination of the qualifying offer proved a sticking point in discussions. MLB had offered the union three proposals on the matter: 1) accept an international draft in exchange for the elimination of the QO, 2) leave both the QO and international signing period in place as they’d previously been or 3) agree to the elimination of the QO with the chance to reconsider the draft next offseason; taking the third route would’ve given the league the right to unilaterally reopen the CBA after the 2024 season if the union continued to object to the draft.
MLB tabled all discussions on other matters beyond that decision, presenting the MLBPA with an ultimatum — choose one of those courses of action or break off negotiations, which would result in another week’s worth of game cancelations. The MLBPA rejected the league’s proposals, instead putting forth a counteroffer. Jeff Passan of ESPN reports (Twitter link) the union proposed the elimination of the qualifying offer for next offseason with a November deadline for a final decision on the international draft. In the event the union rejected a draft at that point, the QO would return the following winter.
MLB declined to counter that proposal, maintaining that their three presented choices were the only scenarios on the table. The league then moved forward with another week of game cancelations. It’s not clear when the parties will reengage in negotiations, but future discussions now figure to be tinged with a whole host of new complications.
The league’s decision today appears to wipe out the possibility of playing a 162-game season. With the shortened schedule are likely to come debates regarding player pay and service time. Manfred has previously stated it’s the league’s position that players shouldn’t be paid for canceled games. MLBPA lead negotiator Bruce Meyer indicated the union would fight any efforts to prorate pay, noting that the game cancelations have been the sole decision of the league.
It’s frankly baffling that the league and union ended up where they did, given how much ground they’d closed on issues like the competitive balance tax, minimum salary and (to a lesser extent) the bonus pool for pre-arbitration players. Those topics hadn’t been formally settled, but the gaps between the parties’ respective asks on each seemed manageable enough to close with further discussions. Despite the movement on core economics, the international draft and indirectly, the qualifying offer, proved a bizarre roadblock.
The MLBPA has continually maintained an unwillingness to implement an international draft, suggesting that players from Latin America are particularly opposed. However, the league’s offers to take the international draft off the table in exchange for the continued existence of the QO make clear that compensation for signing free agents was an equally important issue. The qualifying offer hasn’t garnered a ton of attention as a contentious problem throughout negotiations.
That’s in part because the league agreed early on to its removal before later tying that to the implementation of the draft. However, it’s also because the union has focused much of its attention on a desire to improve compensation for players earlier in their careers. The qualifying offer isn’t related to those efforts, as it only comes into play for around 10-20 free agents (all of whom are at least quality players with six-plus years of service time) each winter. The MLBPA’s decision to draw a line on the qualifying offer is odd, as is the league’s immediate refusal to continue negotiations and cancel more games after the union’s small modification.
The players’ offer to eliminate the QO for one winter and then reevaluate the international draft in November wasn’t all that different than the league’s proposal to maintain the status quo on both topics. Were the union to refuse the international draft and reimpose the QO in 2023-24, the only benefit beyond what the league had been offering would have been one year of free agency without compensation: a matter that would have affected around a dozen players.
Given how close the parties are, it makes both the union’s decision to introduce this counteroffer and the league’s call to end negotiations look like the creation of an avoidable problem. Now, they’ll have to deal with the new issues of player pay and service time on top of whatever gaps remained in the actual questions of substance on the CBA. How long today’s setback will linger can’t be known, but it’s another blow to fans who’d gotten their hopes up at reports of progress over the past two days.
Andy Martino of SNY first reported the upcoming cancelation of games before the league announcement.
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Post by scrappyunderdog on Mar 9, 2022 21:28:22 GMT -5
and that clown represents the owners maybe now u will see why i despise the owners I don't despise the owners. I think they need to concede some more, as do the players.
But don't try to tell me that the fans are their top priority.That's always been BS, not just for the owners, and not just for the players, but pretty much everywhere. I'm not being cynical here, but no one cares about Kimmi, Joey or Jon. Honda wants to sell me a Civic, and I would like to buy a Civic. That's all. Additional Rant-One question that drives me crazy is when someone asks me at a job interview, "why do you want to work here?". Well, I'd love to work here because I love cash machines. Or I love granulating equipment. Or I love the pallet industry. BS. I performed global consolidations and financial reporting. It makes absolutely no difference to me what the product lines are. I apply for a job because I need a job. And I applied here because you need someone with my skills, so I have salary leverage. And I applied because you are a $10B business and can afford to pay me real money. It would be nice if your business was a personal interest of mine, but mostly I want to get paid.
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Post by scrappyunderdog on Mar 9, 2022 21:47:13 GMT -5
Feels close. It feels like one side or another is 100% satisfied, but wants to see how much more they can squeeze out.
I can understand the players wanting to kill the draft comp penalty. That's a real gain. Maybe trade off that penalty, which could affect many teams, and maybe 5-10 players, with conceding on another penalty layer on the payroll super-offenders.
IRT the international draft. I'm wondering if the league is pursuing this simply as a trading chip. They've been doing it this way forever, and seems to work. I don't see any teams receiving an undue advantage. If I were the owners, I'd give that up in exchange for something else that the players don't care about. I don't see anything to go to war over.
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Post by CP_Jon_GoSox on Mar 10, 2022 3:15:42 GMT -5
Jon Heyman @jonheyman · 6h Players made an offer late today: They’d spend the season working on a world draft and if it didn’t work out, qualifying offers/free agent comp would be re-installed at year’s end. This was Manfred’s idea Tuesday night but was rejected because it came after MLB’s 6 pm deadline.
This is actually a great idea, and it could save the full 162-game season. The sides need to revisit this now, and hopefully agree to it. They can retract the release and play ball! No good reason not to do it!
It makes no sense for the season to be short-circuited by a dispute over the international draft. I get that players thought the concept came up late but it makes no sense players were so influenced to protect the awful current system by David Ortiz and others for no good reason.
Sources: Indeed, the sides will talk tonight about the international draft proposal iniated by Manfred Tuesday night and put forth by the union just after the 6 pm deadline. Hope exists!
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Post by CP_Jon_GoSox on Mar 10, 2022 3:16:32 GMT -5
Jon Heyman @jonheyman · 4h MLB, players union negotiators will talk in morning. There’s hope to resurrect things possibly via union’s after-deadline offer to work on an international draft with a promise that if they get it done the qualifying offer goes away. Rob Manfred originally suggested this idea.
While there’s a very vocal minority of players dead set against an international draft, and players have stuck together so far, many baseball people predict if this drags on players will begin to question why they are giving up pay/service time to save the corrupt current system.
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Post by CP_Jon_GoSox on Mar 10, 2022 4:04:21 GMT -5
MLB, Players Association Continuing To Discuss International Draft/Qualifying Offer Tonight
By Anthony Franco | March 9, 2022 at 8:00pm CDT
Despite Major League Baseball’s announcement that Opening Day would not begin before April 14, the league and Players Association continue to discuss their roadblock on the international draft and qualifying offer (as first reported by Tim Healey of Newsday). Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic adds that the parties “(would) determine the number of games in the season” if a new deal is finalized.
The news that the two sides remain in contact could offer a modicum of hope for progress. They’d closed much of the gap on core economics issues, after all, before the league’s desire for an international draft and the union’s push for the elimination of the qualifying offer led to a stalemate.
However, as has become apparent throughout negotiations, there’s no reason to put the cart before the horse. Jeff Passan of ESPN tweets that in-person bargaining is finished for tonight; Robert Murray of FanSided adds they “plan to speak more tomorrow,” suggesting there’s little optimism about finalizing a CBA in the coming hours. Indeed, MLB and the Players Association have kept open lines of communication — even those that fall short of true “negotiations” — constantly in recent weeks.
It’s unclear how much talks will develop this evening. We’ve seen rapid changes in the tenor of negotiations a few times already. Progress towards an eventual endpoint has waxed and waned, particularly as the parties have met frequently over the past few weeks. There’s no indication at this point the league is considering backtracking on its announcement that the first four series of the regular season have been canceled. That was a unilateral MLB decision, though, and nothing bars them from putting those games back on the schedule if they and the union move towards an agreement in the coming days.
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Post by CP_Jon_GoSox on Mar 10, 2022 4:05:06 GMT -5
MLB Announces Postponement Of Opening Day Until At Least April 14
By Anthony Franco | March 9, 2022 at 10:58pm CDT
Major League Baseball announced it has postponed the start of the regular season for at least another week. A statement from Commissioner Rob Manfred reads:
“In a last-ditch effort to preserve a 162-game season, this week we have made good-faith proposals that address the specific concerns voiced by the MLBPA and would have allowed the players to return to the field immediately. The Clubs went to extraordinary lengths to meet the substantial demands of the MLBPA. On the key economic issues that have posed stumbling blocks, the Clubs proposed ways to bridge gaps to preserve a full schedule. Regrettably, after our second late-night bargaining session in a week, we remain without a deal.
Because of the logistical realities of the calendar, another two series are being removed from the schedule, meaning that Opening Day is postponed until April 14th. We worked hard to reach an agreement and offered a fair deal with significant improvements for the players and our fans. I am saddened by this situation’s continued impact on our game and all those who are a part of it, especially our loyal fans.
“We have the utmost respect for our players and hope they will ultimately choose to accept the fair agreement they have been offered.”
The MLBPA offered a statement of its own in response (via Twitter):
“The owners’ decision to cancel additional games is completely unnecessary. After making a set of comprehensive proposals to the league earlier this afternoon, and being told substantive responses were forthcoming, Players have yet to hear back. Players want to play, and we cannot wait to get back on the field for the best fans in the world. Our top priority remains the finalization of a fair contract for all Players, and we will continue negotiations toward that end.”
The league and union had seemingly closed the gap on core economics issues in an effort to hammer out a new CBA. However, the league’s efforts to tie the introduction of a draft for international amateurs to the elimination of the qualifying offer proved a sticking point in discussions. MLB had offered the union three proposals on the matter: 1) accept an international draft in exchange for the elimination of the QO, 2) leave both the QO and international signing period in place as they’d previously been or 3) agree to the elimination of the QO with the chance to reconsider the draft next offseason; taking the third route would’ve given the league the right to unilaterally reopen the CBA after the 2024 season if the union continued to object to the draft.
MLB tabled all discussions on other matters beyond that decision, presenting the MLBPA with an ultimatum — choose one of those courses of action or break off negotiations, which would result in another week’s worth of game cancelations. The MLBPA rejected the league’s proposals, instead putting forth a counteroffer. Jeff Passan of ESPN reports (Twitter link) the union proposed the elimination of the qualifying offer for next offseason with a November deadline for a final decision on the international draft. In the event the union rejected a draft at that point, the QO would return the following winter.
MLB declined to counter that proposal, maintaining that their three presented choices were the only scenarios on the table. The league then moved forward with another week of game cancelations. It’s not clear when the parties will reengage in negotiations, but future discussions now figure to be tinged with a whole host of new complications.
The league’s decision today appears to wipe out the possibility of playing a 162-game season. With the shortened schedule are likely to come debates regarding player pay and service time. Manfred has previously stated it’s the league’s position that players shouldn’t be paid for canceled games. MLBPA lead negotiator Bruce Meyer indicated the union would fight any efforts to prorate pay, noting that the game cancelations have been the sole decision of the league.
It’s frankly baffling that the league and union ended up where they did, given how much ground they’d closed on issues like the competitive balance tax, minimum salary and (to a lesser extent) the bonus pool for pre-arbitration players. Those topics hadn’t been formally settled, but the gaps between the parties’ respective asks on each seemed manageable enough to close with further discussions. Despite the movement on core economics, the international draft and indirectly, the qualifying offer, proved a bizarre roadblock.
The MLBPA has continually maintained an unwillingness to implement an international draft, suggesting that players from Latin America are particularly opposed. However, the league’s offers to take the international draft off the table in exchange for the continued existence of the QO make clear that compensation for signing free agents was an equally important issue. The qualifying offer hasn’t garnered a ton of attention as a contentious problem throughout negotiations.
That’s in part because the league agreed early on to its removal before later tying that to the implementation of the draft. However, it’s also because the union has focused much of its attention on a desire to improve compensation for players earlier in their careers. The qualifying offer isn’t related to those efforts, as it only comes into play for around 10-20 free agents (all of whom are at least quality players with six-plus years of service time) each winter. The MLBPA’s decision to draw a line on the qualifying offer is odd, as is the league’s immediate refusal to continue negotiations and cancel more games after the union’s small modification.
The players’ offer to eliminate the QO for one winter and then reevaluate the international draft in November wasn’t all that different than the league’s proposal to maintain the status quo on both topics. Were the union to refuse the international draft and reimpose the QO in 2023-24, the only benefit beyond what the league had been offering would have been one year of free agency without compensation: a matter that would have affected around a dozen players.
Given how close the parties are, it makes both the union’s decision to introduce this counteroffer and the league’s call to end negotiations look like the creation of an avoidable problem. Now, they’ll have to deal with the new issues of player pay and service time on top of whatever gaps remained in the actual questions of substance on the CBA. How long today’s setback will linger can’t be known, but it’s another blow to fans who’d gotten their hopes up at reports of progress over the past two days.
Andy Martino of SNY first reported the upcoming cancelation of games before the league announcement.
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Post by CP_Jon_GoSox on Mar 10, 2022 4:07:48 GMT -5
John Tomase @jtomase · 10h If MLBPA has learned anything over last 2 CBAs, it's that seemingly small concessions can compound over the life of the deal. We can look at it and say, "Just take the offer," but they'll feel the ramifications for another 5 years. In that context, why rush to yes at this point?
Jon Couture @joncouture · 4h No matter what they agree to, they'll hate it in five years. Until they get a system in place that ties compensation growth to revenue growth, they'll fall further behind each CBA.
That it's not even a discussion and we're already out two weeks is damn depressing.
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Post by CP_Jon_GoSox on Mar 10, 2022 4:11:19 GMT -5
Dividing baseball’s growing revenue streams still at issue By Peter Abraham Globe Staff,Updated March 9, 2022, 9:35 p.m.
FORT MYERS, Fla. — On Tuesday, Apple announced it made a deal with Major League Baseball to stream two games on Friday nights over the course of the season on Apple TV+. Reports had the deal being worth $85 million annually over seven years.
On Wednesday, commissioner Rob Manfred canceled two more series after the owners again failed to agree to a new collective bargaining with the Players Association.
The 93 games canceled included the first Red Sox-Yankees series of the season in New York April 7-10.
We’re all seeing the disconnect here, right? More money pours into baseball one day and a day later the owners and players still can’t decide how to divide it up fairly.
Now Opening Day will be no sooner than April 14 and it’s hard to believe that will be the case given how poorly this negotiation has been handled.
The sides worked deep into the night on Tuesday and came close to agreeing on the core economic issues that have caused the stalemate only to have the owners dig in on wanting an international amateur draft.
The union has long viewed the international draft as a non-starter in CBA talks over the years, turning it down time after time including in this round of talks.
Roughly 33 percent of big leaguers hail from Latin American countries and they see an international draft as a tool to cut bonus payments to prospects.
Frustrating as it may be to have what seemed to be fruitful talks break down again for the second time in a week, the union wasn’t throwing a third of its membership under the bus.
To be certain, how players are scouted and signed in places like the Dominican Republic and Venezuela is a dirty business. It’s known that some teams cut deals with players as young as 13 or 14 and hide them away until they’re eligible to sign at 16.
Players are often forced to kick back a percentage of their bonuses to shadowy “trainers” or even to the scout who signed them.
If MLB and the Players Association had a functional relationship, they would work together to fix this over time with Hall of Famers like David Ortiz and Pedro Martinez using their influence to help build a better system for everybody.
But the players don’t trust Manfred and didn’t want new rules pushed through at the last minute.
That the owners chose the international draft where to make a stand suggests they didn’t like the deal that was coming together over the last few days. They had to know the union would balk and it did.
Now time has run out for a 162-game season unless you push the World Series into the second week of November. But the union will still push for the players to get paid for a full season and get a full year of service time, adding another obstacle to making a deal.
MLB also announced that spring training games will start no earlier than March 18, essentially wiping out that schedule and further punishing the people who work in and around ballparks in Arizona and Florida and count on those games to earn a living.
This will eventually end. A deal will be struck and there will be a season. It’ll be a mess sorting everything out to get to Opening Day but that will get done.
But nobody will win. Baseball has already lost by letting this process drag on for nearly 100 days, further driving away fans who are increasingly annoyed by the game’s slow pace and lack of action.
They could have come to an agreement in January that included provisions to improve how the game is played. But stubborn posturing prevented that.
The phony deadlines, competing statements and blame-gaming since has been embarrassing.
In 2020, the league and the union fought while the rest of us endured a deadly pandemic. In 2022, they’re squabbling as a war in Ukraine dominates the news.
There comes a time to put differences aside and make a deal. But they missed that deadline, too. The hubris could fill a ballpark.
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Post by CP_Jon_GoSox on Mar 10, 2022 4:15:14 GMT -5
MLB owners are turning capitalism on its head in these labor negotiations By Christopher L. Gasper Globe Staff,Updated March 9, 2022, 3:25 p.m.
When money is involved, philosophies and core beliefs can become more flexible than pipe cleaners in an arts and crafts project. Principals will bend and abandon their principles for expediency.
That’s the case for Major League Baseball owners in this lockout of their creation, and it’s the most distasteful part of a labor dispute that has now led to MLB announcing it’s canceling essentially its first two weeks of games.
It’s amazing to see that the same cartel of multimillionaires who in their real business lives would be clamoring for an unfettered free market without constraints, advocating survival-of-the-richest capitalism, and demanding self-reliance without economic subsidies are suddenly against all of those things in their baseball business. That’s why we’ve been subjected to collective bargaining theater for 98 days. It’s pure hardball hypocrisy.
You would like to think that the balance sheet that matters most to a sports team owner is the one showing wins and losses — the standings. You would hope that would be how they measure the success and viability of their franchises. Nope.
In a legalized monopoly with an antitrust exemption — a huge government handout — the owners want their teams to be foolproof profit centers. That’s what matters most.
MLB owners are seeking a system that insulates them against losses or at the very least severely limits them. Led by MLB commissioner and crafty labor lawyer Rob Manfred, the owners want to be subsidized by the players by depressing player costs through several mechanisms, chiefly the euphemistically named competitive balance tax, without guaranteeing a certain percentage of revenue to the players like other sports leagues.
MLB got the best of both worlds in the last collective bargaining agreement, crushing Players Association executive director Tony Clark. It got a de facto salary cap without any required minimum spending. So, as profits rose in what was nearly an $11 billion industry pre-pandemic, player costs did not accordingly. In fact, according to the Associated Press, MLB as an industry spent $4.05 billion on player salaries in 2021, the lowest level since 2015.
That’s a sweetheart of a position that’s hard for owners to cede. It’s also why the players are digging in their cleats to restore balance.
MLB has masterfully engaged in cost-cutting and player market suppression over the last five-plus years. It has taken control of the minor leagues and cut teams. There are spending limits with penalties attached on both international spending and the draft — which has been trimmed — via prescribed spending pools.
Long gone are the days of a Japanese phenom like former Red Sox pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka sparking a massive bidding war and forcing the Sox to pay his club $51.1 million just for the right to sign him to a six-year, $52 million deal.
Now, there are pre-calculated amounts that go to the Japanese team, based on the player’s MLB contract.
MLB is the Mark Twain of sports leagues. Rumors of its demise have been greatly exaggerated. Related: Major League Baseball gets one deal done— with Apple TV
This week, MLB struck streaming deals with Apple and Peacock worth a combined $115 million per year at the same time it’s crying poor mouth with the players.
MLB’s latest offer caps out the CBT at $242 million, a significant increase from the $210 million threshold last season and MLB’s previous fake-deadline offer of $230 million. The players’ counter on Wednesday of $250 million in the final year of the deal (2026) narrowed the gap to just $8 million.
Peanuts.
MLB’s offer on the luxury tax is tied to yet another salary depressant, an international draft, starting in 2024. It’s a concept with merit to clean up the cesspool of graft intrinsic in player procurement in some Caribbean and Latin American countries, unfortunately. But that altruistic aim isn’t why MLB is pushing it in tandem with higher CBTs. It’s to lower the expense of tapping one of its most fertile talent bases.
The terms of engagement from owners are disheartening, because while these teams do require real money and real cost expenditures, they’re not intended to be treated like real businesses. They’re toys for the wealthy, like a helicopter, a yacht, or a private jet.
Otherwise, owners should acknowledge that MLB should work like the other businesses they’re involved in as part of a capitalist system. You don’t have enough money to field a competitive team or turn a profit? Sell your team.
If you can’t rouse your market to support your baseball team financially, then the team should be relocated to a market that can. Nashville, Charlotte, and Montreal are clamoring for Major League Baseball.
That’s how capitalism works. Therein lies the contradiction of the owners’ position. They want their teams to be treated like regular businesses, just not when it comes to the potential negative consequences.
The owners may win this round of labor roulette — although not as decisively as they planned — but they’re losing the public relations battle. A recent poll of fans shared by the Globe’s Michael Silverman saw 45 percent blaming owners for the stalemate.
Michael Silverman @mikesilvermanbb Encourage you to read all the polling results from @morningconsult survey on labor dispute taken at beginning of this week of 1,300+ self-identifying MLB fans. Key: 45% hold owners responsible for failed CBA talks. 21% players. 34% don’t know/no opinion.
One of the claims from MLB is that the CBT is the governor that keeps the game’s competitive balance in place, preventing teams like the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, and Mets from running away from the field.
There’s a hole in this Chicken Little notion: Payroll discrepancy has actually worked in favor of MLB owners.
Necessity is the mother of invention. You don’t get the Moneyball A’s or the Rays Way, philosophical approaches adopted to some degree by all of MLB, without financial disparity. It’s a copycat league. You could argue that finding creative ways to overcome the resource gap has helped all MLB teams depress player costs.
That’s why this cry rings hollow, as hollow as MLB’s baseball brinkmanship, which continues as the sides keep playing deal or no deal.
MLB made its latest pitch to the players during another marathon negotiating session Tuesday that leaked into Wednesday. It was centered around another artificial deadline implemented by MLB, which threw a changeup.
It turns out last week’s deadline was fungible. Before it issued more cancellations, MLB claimed it could rescind its cancellation of the two series previously nixed to still accommodate a 162-game season, but only if the players agreed to a new CBA, ASAP.
The bedrock of any agreement is trust. Based on how pliable the facts and economic ideologies are for MLB owners, it remains hard for players and fans to take them at face value.
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Post by CP_Jon_GoSox on Mar 10, 2022 4:17:42 GMT -5
As talks continue between MLB players and owners, is there cause for hope on key issue? By Michael Silverman Globe Staff,Updated March 9, 2022, 9:36 p.m.
NEW YORK — After talks between MLB players and owners collapsed Wednesday night and cancellation of the first four series of the season appeared certain, hope flared with word from an MLB spokesperson that talks were continuing on the sticky issue.
If the talks resulted in a resolution, the sides could re-engage on the rest of their issues and then be able to re-evaluate how many games will be played this season.
That means a 162-game season might be possible after all, although that would require a quick resolution, perhaps as early as Thursday, on the remainder of the CBA..
The bewildering flip-flop came after the league said the union did not meet its 6 p.m. deadline for responding to a series of choices over the international draft-draft pick compensation issues that emerged as a roadblock Wednesday afternoon.
By missing the deadline, MLB felt compelled to follow through on the consequences, which was to be further cancellation of series.
MLB canceled the first two series of the season a week ago.
The weird turn of events began Wednesday in the early morning hours, when the sides decided around 3 am to pause talks and allow the players to consult their board before making their first proposal.
Early in the afternoon, MLB Players Association presented MLB with a counter-proposal that it had spent most of the early- and late-morning formulating after extensive talks with the league Monday and Tuesday.
Expecting a counter-proposal, the union instead was surprised to receive what it considered an ultimatum from MLB: Choose one of three options concerning the international draft and draft pick compensation, or else forget about receiving a counter-proposal.
After rejecting the three proposals, Manfred’s statement about canceling games was released.
“The Clubs went to extraordinary lengths to meet the substantial demands of the MLBPA,” read Manfred’s statement. “On the key economic issues that have posed stumbling blocks, the Clubs proposed ways to bridge gaps to preserve a full schedule. Regrettably, after our second late-night bargaining session in a week, we remain without a deal.”
The union responded soon after with its own statement.
“The owners’ decision to cancel additional games is completely unnecessary. After making a set of comprehensive proposals to the league earlier this afternoon, and being told substantive responses were forthcoming, Players have yet to hear back.”
Not long after that statement came word from the MLB spokesperson that talks on the international draft were ongoing, and that the league hoped it could reach a resolution.
Should the talks collapse again, the perhaps unsafe assumption is that the first four series will have to be canceled.
Opening Day, originally scheduled for March 31, would then take place no earlier than April 14, with the first four series of the season now scratched. That would mean the Red Sox’ three-game series vs. the Yankees April 7-10 in New York and a three-game set vs. the Tigers April 11-13 in Detroit would be lost.
It’s worth noting that April 15 marks the 75th anniversary of Jackie Robinson Day, the celebration of the 1947 Opening Day when Robinson broke the color barrier.
A settlement in the next day or two might allow both the league and players to avoid the further embarrassment of missing the annual celebration, which carries significant cultural weight not only to baseball, but US history.
The owners locked out the players on Dec. 2, starting the first work stoppage in the last 26 years.
The players have been seeking the majority of changes in the next CBA, with the owners largely content to retain most of the key elements and structures of the expired CBA.
The players’ wish-list has centered on getting younger players paid more and paid earlier and improving competitive integrity in the sport.
The “structural roadblock” mentioned by a league official in an early afternoon media briefing concerned the players’ unwillingness to accept the international draft the owners want. The draft has been in every MLB proposal since last July. The union has rejected the plan each time.
The first option proposed by the league was for the union to accept the international draft in exchange for eliminating draft pick compensation, a feature the players have felt acts as a drag on free agent signings.
The second option was the status quo — no international draft and keep the qualifying offer set-up.
The third option was to eliminate draft pick compensation and give players until this Nov. 15 to agree to an international draft. If the union did not agree to the international draft by then, MLB would be able to reopen the next CBA after 2024, making it a three-year rather than five-year deal.
Though you wouldn’t know it from how the day initially ended, the sides did make real progress on bridging their financial gaps over the last two days.
On minimum salaries, the players are at $710,000 and finishing at $780,000 by the end of the deal, with MLB at $700,000-$770,000.
On the pre-arbitration bonus pool the players dropped down to $65 million with the owners at $40 million.
On CBT, the players’ thresholds range $232 million to $250 million, while the owners are at $230 million to $242 million.
Talks between MLB players and owners collapsed Wednesday night, followed by commissioner Rob Manfred following through on his threat to cancel more games.
Opening Day, originally scheduled for March 31, can now take place no earlier than April 14, with the first four series of the season now scratched. That means the Red Sox’ three-game series vs. the Yankees April 7-10 in New York and a three-game set vs. the Tigers April 11-13 in Detroit will be lost.
“The Clubs went to extraordinary lengths to meet the substantial demands of the MLBPA,” read Manfred’s statement. “On the key economic issues that have posed stumbling blocks, the Clubs proposed ways to bridge gaps to preserve a full schedule. Regrettably, after our second late-night bargaining session in a week, we remain without a deal.”
Never smooth to begin with, the 11th-hour negotiations ran into a “structural roadblock” late in the afternoon on Wednesday.
Early in the afternoon, the Players Association presented MLB with a counterproposal that it had spent most of the early and late morning formulating after extensive talks with the league Monday and Tuesday.
Expecting a counterproposal, the union instead was surprised to receive what it considered an ultimatum from MLB: Choose one of three options concerning the international draft and draft pick compensation or else forget about receiving a counterproposal.
After the union rejected the three proposals, Manfred’s statement was released.
The Players Association countered with a statement of its own shortly after Manfred’s announcement was delivered.
When the sides resumed talking this week, the league informed the players, who planned to add full pay and service time for any lost games, that a 162-game schedule was back on the table after Manfred initially ruled it out a week ago, when he canceled the first two series of the season.
The owners locked out the players on Dec. 2, starting the first work stoppage in the last 26 years.
The players have been seeking the majority of changes in the next collective bargaining agreement, with the owners largely content to retain most of the key elements and structures of the expired CBA.
The players’ wish list has centered on getting younger players paid more and paid earlier and improving competitive integrity in the sport.
The “structural roadblock” mentioned by a league official in a media briefing concerned the players’ unwillingness to accept the international draft the owners want. The draft has been in every MLB proposal since last July. The union has rejected the plan each time.
The first option proposed by the league was for the union to accept the international draft in exchange for eliminating draft pick compensation, a feature the players have felt acts as a drag on free agent signings.
The second option was the status quo — no international draft and keep the qualifying offer set-up.
The third option would be to eliminate draft pick compensation and give players until this Nov. 15 to agree to an international draft. If the union does not agree to the international draft by then, MLB would be able to reopen the next CBA after 2024, making it a three-year rather than five-year deal.
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Post by CP_Jon_GoSox on Mar 10, 2022 4:18:33 GMT -5
Pete Abraham @peteabe · 5h The floating deadlines, media spin, competing statements and false hopes have become tedious.
Stop talking about getting it done and just get it done.
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Post by CP_Jon_GoSox on Mar 10, 2022 8:08:15 GMT -5
MLB lockout: What to make of baseball’s latest ‘colossal failure’ | Beat reporters breakdown
By Randy Miller | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com and Brendan Kuty | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com and Bob Klapisch | For NJ Advance Media
It looked like the baseball lockout was going to end Monday night. Then Tuesday. Then for sure on Wednesday.
And here we are. The sides still haven’t come to an agreement on a new CBA even after players and owners compromised on the biggest issues in their money fight. They were so far apart on luxury-tax thresholds for months until owners made a big move this week. Even that wasn’t enough. Amazingly, players and owners found a new battle to kill a deal:
Owners want an international draft, players don’t and this issue led to commissioner Rob Manfred canceling more games early Wednesday evening.
Probably.
By now you should now that deadlines mean nothing to Major League Baseball. Hours after a second week of regular-season games were canceled, the sides had more talks Wednesday night and will meet again Thursday morning.
MLB Network insider Jon Heyman tweeted “players made a late offer. They’d spend the season working on a world draft, and if it didn’t work out, qualifying offers/free agent compensation would be reinstalled at year’s end. This was Manfred’s idea Tuesday night, but it was rejected because it came after MLB’s 6 p.m. deadline.”
Would a quick resolution (yeah, right!) put a 162-game season back on the table? Or are these games really canceled for good because there only would be time for about three weeks of spring training?
What a mess.
Here is how NJ Advance Media baseball writers Brendan Kuty, Randy Miller and Bob Klapisch reacted to this latest bad day for baseball:
KLAPISCH: At this point I’m just disgusted. I don’t feel sorry for anybody. Either side. I blame all parties across the board. This is such a colossal failure to compromise. Not just compromise, but failure to see the view from 30,000 feet and the damage the sport is inflicting on itself with the general public. Everybody hates baseball today. Everybody is disgusted with the industry. Not the game. We all love the game. But it’s the industry which has failed us. I think everybody’s willing to give baseball a second, third and fourth chance if they could just get their act together and play 162 games however difficult it is to get there. But now that we almost certainly won’t have a full season, it’s going to be 2022 with a big ugly asterisk. It’s on both sides, Rob Manfred and MLBPA executive director Tony Clark.
KUTY: Klap, what you said is right. Everybody hates baseball today. How often can you say that about a sport? I’m almost apathetic at this point. The owners want to make money? Cool. The players want to help out future generations of players? Time’s up. I don’t care anymore. It’s tough for me to care about future generations of players right now. Everyone had so much time. Plus, the players got themselves into this mess by making a bad deal last time around. I have pity, but it only goes so far.
KLAPISCH: Think about what this says, Brendan. What an indictment. We’re paid to be invested in baseball. We’re supposed to pour our lives into this game and yet a baseball writer has reached the point of indifference. That’s the degree to which people are alienated. I think a majority of fans who love baseball or just follow it casually are either laughing at the sport or have written it off. But for a baseball writer to say, “I’m throwing up my hands, I can’t take it anymore,” shows you what a failure this is.
MILLER: The sad part of this is they were close to a deal. They’re still close to a deal. But if Opening Day really is pushed back, then there’s a new wrench in this because owners are not going to want to pay players full salary if the season isn’t 162 games. They’ll probably end up giving players service time for a full season, but I don’t see owners paying full salaries. Players are going to demand that. Going forward, the league proposal that wasn’t accepted on Wednesday probably is going to be off the table in future negotiations because of lost TV and gate revenue from canceled games. But I’m still not convinced that a deal won’t be done in the next day or two and they still end up playing 162. But if these games really are canceled, this lockout could go deep into the summer.
KUTY: I think Opening Day is being pushed back regardless. I think they’re looking at April 15 as a real Opening Day, and that’s Jackie Robinson Day. Maybe they think that it will help sell tickets? I don’t know. I don’t like that. The owners need some kind of booster if there’s a new Opening Day.
KLAPISCH: I guess that’s what they’re shooting for.
MILLER: The one huge problem with having a three-week spring training is pitchers wouldn’t have enough time to get ready and then a lot of them could be pitching on 40-degree April nights in New York, Boston, Cincinnati and other cities that have cold weather in the spring. That’s a recipe for tons of arm injuries.
KLAPISCH: Totally, totally agree. Three weeks of spring training and then pitching in 40-degree weather is a terrible idea. You can’t do this with less than a month of spring training. That’s the bare-bones minimum. If they try to do three weeks and then start up in mid-April, think of how many players are going to be on the injured list by June 1.
KUTY: The whole thing is disgusting.
KLAPISCH: I think we’ve reached a seminal moment in the game’s history. Rob Manfred, who has made one mistake after another, really got the owners to move closer to a compromise. I have no sympathy for the league, and it has been guilty of many, many mistakes and transgressions, but this week I really thought a majority of owners finally wanted a deal. I think the league did its part by extending the deadline multiple times. It kept giving the union one more chance, one more chance. “Let’s play a full season.” The league made a number of concessions which I thought were reasonable. It was not a perfect CBA for either side, but that’s the goal of any negotiation. Create something that’s livable for both parties. I thought that was accomplished. I don’t understand why the players didn’t take it. There’s a segment within the union that believes must win outright, their goal is to rout the league. I don’t know what the calculus is, but this is a mistake. Baseball will have suffered a severe setback if this lockout isn’t settled immediately. If not, we’re not just talking about another week or two. This hostility and distrust are now baked into the formula, and we could be looking at a long, long impasse.
KUTY: Bob, you talked about owners pushing back deadlines. They created the deadlines. No one expected them to hold to that deadline. I don’t know enough about all this stuff, admittedly, but one of the biggest holdups is the qualifying offer being tied to the international draft. For me, if you think that the international draft will be unfair, particularly to Latin players ... To get to a qualifying offer, you have to have had a pretty good career, right? You have to have made life-changing money and you’re set. So to get to this point … holy moly! If you’re concerned about the young Latin or other amateur players, then keep the qualifying offer and then keep it the way things are now in the international market. You’ve got to do something for the young kids. That’s how I see it. I don’t get why players are holding so hard on getting rid of the qualifying offer In addition to getting rid of the idea of the international draft. Help the kids out.
MILLER: I’m in favor of the international draft because I think it would stop the corruption of the buscones, the handlers of these Latino kids who are signing with clubs as international free agents. The New York Times did a story a few years ago detailing how the handlers are injecting kids with PEDs and painkillers and they get sometimes up to 50% of signing bonuses. I think an international draft is a way to end this. Actually, I’m in favor of a world draft. Do it like hockey and put everyone in the draft, not just Americans, Canadians and Puerto Ricans.
KLAPISCH: I think what’s not being said here is that there was a divide between the union. A large majority of Latino players were against the implementation of a draft. I think everyone else was probably thinking, “OK, we’ve got a deal,” but to Dominican, Venezuelan and Puerto Rican players, the draft is a bad idea. For them, it was a deal-breaker.
KUTY: Those Latin players end up part of the union, so I think you have to listen to them.
KLAPISCH: I totally agree. I can understand the pushback to the draft if you’re from the Caribbean region.
MILLER: Why should those kids be free agents when a kid from New Jersey has to go through a draft? I’m not saying take away money from the Latino kids. Add more money to the draft pot. Make the bonuses bigger. Whatever it takes. But why not make it the same playing field for all teenaged baseball prospects?
KLAPISCH: A great high school athlete in this country has options. He can play other sports, he can go to college. A kid from the Dominican has one way to make money, to get off the island and change his life or change the fortunes of the family. And that’s baseball. You can’t expect that kind of revolution in a year or two and expect the union to buy into it.
MILLER: Dominican kids can still get off the island with a draft, and they might end up with more money in their pocket. If you’re taking away the corruption, does it matter if they sign with the Yankees as an international free agent or get the same money from the Marlins via international draft? And again, a draft probably slows down or ends the corruption.
KLAPISCH: Those buscones are untrustworthy. There’s no question the system is corrupt and needs to be fixed. I’m just trying to articulate the point of view from Dominicans and other Caribbean countries.
KUTY: And there’s no guarantee that those players will get the money either way.
KLAPISCH: This is not really a black or white issue. I don’t blame Dominican players for wanting to put off the draft or maybe never even agree to it. I get it. But I’m not oblivious to the counter-argument. The union has to know you’ve got to give something in return to the owners’ concessions on the CBT, on the salary minimums, the pre-arbitration pool. They’ve compromised in the last 48 hours, but it’s not for free. You don’t get everything. I agree that the owners probably included this demand on the international draft at the 11th hour. I get that it took players by surprise and they didn’t like it. But there are some things you just have to swallow in the name of getting to the finish line.
KUTY: We’re all fed up. We’re all tired of this. They’re all adults and they should be better at this. But nothing matters to them other than themselves.
KLAPISCH: Nobody has stopped to think, “We’re alienating the very people who monetize this game, the ones who buy the tickets, the ones who buy the $10 beers, the ones who buy the Aaron Judge jerseys, the ones that pay for the MLB app on their phones. That’s where the revenue comes from. The folks out there are saying, “Screw you, baseball!” That’s what they’re saying as the sport is busy destroying itself.
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